KASTRUP AND SHELDRAKE ON THE COSMIC MIND

[Lou Gold]

This is the very process by which the individual and the collective are reconciled in spiritual degrees of freedom, as the relative perspectives of the Spirit across all scales harmonize their self-similar rhythms of activity. The higher-order scales are already relatively harmonious - as we see in the symphonic functioning of the Cosmos and Nature - and are waiting for the human scale to freely attune its rhythms, instead of spreading its cacophony into the whole organic system.

Please consider this unrehearsed spontaneous improvisation, which may be an emergent creative alternative to the dismal cacophony:

This is impressive, Lou, and a great example of the human spirit at work. Thanks for sharing. It shows what we are capable of when we direct our attention to a central inspirer of our spiritual activity (remember, singing is a form of imaginative thinking activity) and truly desire to resonate with others in harmony.

Yet we can also notice how these same people will leave the concert and go back to their relatively cacaphonic sensory existence. Their 'inspiration' for conducting their spiritual activity will be patched up from the most disjointed sources, from friends, teachers, movie stars, musicians, athletes, political leaders, advertisements, and plain old instinctive pleasure-seeking habits.

What I was speaking of above was Inspiration that goes deeper and is more lasting, where the Divine directly conducts our attuned spiritual activity, even during normal sensory existence. It is a gradual and subtle process of transformative attunement, of course. In a certain sense, it requires us to withhold the forces that come to expression in our outer singing and repurpose them toward singing inwardly. Then we come to know the essence of the forces that we are always relying on as the support and medium of our spiritual activity, which by acting as that support and medium, are merged into the background and therefore ignored.

I'm glad you like it Ashvin,

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

I believe he is advocating and performing an acceptance of the cacaphonies and then building new harmonies with them. He often states that he doesn't believe there is anything that qualifies as a bad sound; only inadequate harmonies that can't embrace them.

I do agree with you, Steiner, et al that one should not stop at any step. Continued realization, maintenance and manifestation are an on-going work co-arising from what is already within and beyond us.

For those who might be interested in Collier's views, here are two excellent podcasts:

[Federica]

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

Lou, could it be that it's the same view?
Because Collier doesn't advocate spreading out cacophony. Rather, he continually transforms it. The only reason why he's interested in the cacophonic diversity of sounds is to process it, not to idolize the Great Diversity of sound as it is. Do you agree?

[Lou Gold]

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

Lou, could it be that it's the same view?
Because Collier doesn't advocate spreading out cacophony. Rather, he continually transforms it. The only reason why he's interested in the cacophonic diversity of sounds is to process it, not to idolize the Great Diversity of sound as it is. Do you agree?

He celebrates, relishes and thrives in the great diversity of sound. I believe he would say that he "gives permission" to what others might judge as cacophonic in a negative sense. The intention is to harmonize via full acceptance. Check out this half minute clip:



Or, for more "cacophony" check out this...



And, even more "cacophony" here...



One might say "It's spreading."

[AshvinP]

I'm glad you like it Ashvin,

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

I believe he is advocating and performing an acceptance of the cacaphonies and then building new harmonies with them. He often states that he doesn't believe there is anything that qualifies as a bad sound; only inadequate harmonies that can't embrace them.

I do agree with you, Steiner, et al that one should not stop at any step. Continued realization, maintenance and manifestation are an on-going work co-arising from what is already within and beyond us.

For those who might be interested in Collier's views, here are two excellent podcasts:
...

Lou,

The cacophonic is clearly a metaphor for the twisted, corrupted, cross-conflicting state of passions and intents that weave through the World today, born out of spiritual ignorance and strictly pleasure-seeking behaviors. I don't think we have to look too far or hard to spot this cacophonic state of affairs, especially if we turn our gaze inward. It is a metaphor speaking from the verses,

“Where your treasure lies, there, too, lies your heart.”

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

As long as our treasure lies in that which pleases our senses or soothes our intellect, our heart's inclination towards the spiritual will remain hardened. There isn't anything in sensory existence that is inherently 'bad', whether a sound, a sight, a taste, etc., but they only become unhealthy when entangled in our selfishness and our ignorance of their spiritual foundations.

[Lou Gold]

I'm glad you like it Ashvin,

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

I believe he is advocating and performing an acceptance of the cacaphonies and then building new harmonies with them. He often states that he doesn't believe there is anything that qualifies as a bad sound; only inadequate harmonies that can't embrace them.

I do agree with you, Steiner, et al that one should not stop at any step. Continued realization, maintenance and manifestation are an on-going work co-arising from what is already within and beyond us.

For those who might be interested in Collier's views, here are two excellent podcasts:
...

Lou,

The cacophonic is clearly a metaphor for the twisted, corrupted, cross-conflicting state of passions and intents that weave through the World today, born out of spiritual ignorance and strictly pleasure-seeking behaviors. I don't think we have to look too far or hard to spot this cacophonic state of affairs, especially if we turn our gaze inward. It is a metaphor speaking from the verses,

“Where your treasure lies, there, too, lies your heart.”

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

As long as our treasure lies in that which pleases our senses or soothes our intellect, our heart's inclination towards the spiritual will remain hardened. There isn't anything in sensory existence that is inherently 'bad', whether a sound, a sight, a taste, etc., but they only become unhealthy when entangled in our selfishness and our ignorance of their spiritual foundations.

Ashvin,

Strong words, indeed!

Please share with us how you would apply them to JC's latest song. How would you evaluate, not our weird wild world but his mission in it? What I'm fishing for is understanding how you feel about it?

[AshvinP]

I'm glad you like it Ashvin,

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

I believe he is advocating and performing an acceptance of the cacaphonies and then building new harmonies with them. He often states that he doesn't believe there is anything that qualifies as a bad sound; only inadequate harmonies that can't embrace them.

I do agree with you, Steiner, et al that one should not stop at any step. Continued realization, maintenance and manifestation are an on-going work co-arising from what is already within and beyond us.

For those who might be interested in Collier's views, here are two excellent podcasts:
...

Lou,

The cacophonic is clearly a metaphor for the twisted, corrupted, cross-conflicting state of passions and intents that weave through the World today, born out of spiritual ignorance and strictly pleasure-seeking behaviors. I don't think we have to look too far or hard to spot this cacophonic state of affairs, especially if we turn our gaze inward. It is a metaphor speaking from the verses,

“Where your treasure lies, there, too, lies your heart.”

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

As long as our treasure lies in that which pleases our senses or soothes our intellect, our heart's inclination towards the spiritual will remain hardened. There isn't anything in sensory existence that is inherently 'bad', whether a sound, a sight, a taste, etc., but they only become unhealthy when entangled in our selfishness and our ignorance of their spiritual foundations.

Ashvin,

Strong words, indeed!

Please share with us how you would apply them to JC's latest song. How would you evaluate, not our weird wild world but his mission in it? What I'm fishing for is understanding how you feel about it?

We are speaking of much bigger, more important waves of human destiny than Collier's songs or his personal mission, and how we can creatively participate in those waves through inner development. This inner development goes well beyond tinkering around the edges of artistic imagination. Collier and his fans may feel like they are bringing something novel and revolutionary into the World, but they are simply rearranging thought-forms on the horizontal plane like many others, i.e. BK, Hoffman, Peterson, Vervaeke, Levin, etc. All these people contribute something to the spiritual economy, but they don't at all illuminate the concrete way in which we, as everyday thinking individuals, can penetrate further and further within the foundations of that spiritual economy. In that sense, I view Collier and many similar pop phenomena as interesting sideshows to the real inner work, which can easily become distractions from that work. Mostly their value is in providing feedback as to how various domains of human culture are evolving in response to changing spiritual conditions.

As far as music goes, I view all modern music as 'footnotes' to the classical masters, just as Whitehead said about modern philosophers:

“The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought that scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them”.

When listening to music, I prefer to spend my time with pieces such as this, which I don't think Collier or any others working within the framework of pop musical trends will surpass anytime soon:

[Lou Gold]

Ashvin,

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

I recognize this as a teaching of Jesus but I'm curious where the exact quote is located. What is the citation for this wording?

[AshvinP]

Ashvin,

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

I recognize this as a teaching of Jesus but I'm curious where the exact quote is located. What is the citation for this wording?

That is from the prophet Isaiah, which is also referenced in the NT such as Matt 13:14 and John 12:40.

[Lou Gold]

Lou,

The cacophonic is clearly a metaphor for the twisted, corrupted, cross-conflicting state of passions and intents that weave through the World today, born out of spiritual ignorance and strictly pleasure-seeking behaviors. I don't think we have to look too far or hard to spot this cacophonic state of affairs, especially if we turn our gaze inward. It is a metaphor speaking from the verses,

“Where your treasure lies, there, too, lies your heart.”

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

As long as our treasure lies in that which pleases our senses or soothes our intellect, our heart's inclination towards the spiritual will remain hardened. There isn't anything in sensory existence that is inherently 'bad', whether a sound, a sight, a taste, etc., but they only become unhealthy when entangled in our selfishness and our ignorance of their spiritual foundations.

Ashvin,

Strong words, indeed!

Please share with us how you would apply them to JC's latest song. How would you evaluate, not our weird wild world but his mission in it? What I'm fishing for is understanding how you feel about it?

We are speaking of much bigger, more important waves of human destiny than Collier's songs or his personal mission, and how we can creatively participate in those waves through inner development. This inner development goes well beyond tinkering around the edges of artistic imagination. Collier and his fans may feel like they are bringing something novel and revolutionary into the World, but they are simply rearranging thought-forms on the horizontal plane like many others, i.e. BK, Hoffman, Peterson, Vervaeke, Levin, etc. All these people contribute something to the spiritual economy, but they don't at all illuminate the concrete way in which we, as everyday thinking individuals, can penetrate further and further within the foundations of that spiritual economy. In that sense, I view Collier and many similar pop phenomena as interesting sideshows to the real inner work, which can easily become distractions from that work. Mostly their value is in providing feedback as to how various domains of human culture are evolving in response to changing spiritual conditions.

As far as music goes, I view all modern music as 'footnotes' to the classical masters, just as Whitehead said about modern philosophers:

“The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought that scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them”.

When listening to music, I prefer to spend my time with pieces such as this, which I don't think Collier or any others working within the framework of pop musical trends will surpass anytime soon:

I love Vivaldi. The Winter music surely aligns with the text. I wonder, would you have recognized the icy winter simply from the music or did you need it augmented by the name and text?

I also wonder in you have actually listened in full to what Collier says about his process or are you projecting a more generalized notion of popular music? Do you have any feeling that he is part of a paradigm shift from me to we and/or a fuller individual participation that is less elitist?

[Lou Gold]

I'm glad you like it Ashvin,

I do believe Collier is offering a different view of what you call the "cacaphonic sensory existence".

I believe he is advocating and performing an acceptance of the cacaphonies and then building new harmonies with them. He often states that he doesn't believe there is anything that qualifies as a bad sound; only inadequate harmonies that can't embrace them.

I do agree with you, Steiner, et al that one should not stop at any step. Continued realization, maintenance and manifestation are an on-going work co-arising from what is already within and beyond us.

For those who might be interested in Collier's views, here are two excellent podcasts:
...

Lou,

The cacophonic is clearly a metaphor for the twisted, corrupted, cross-conflicting state of passions and intents that weave through the World today, born out of spiritual ignorance and strictly pleasure-seeking behaviors. I don't think we have to look too far or hard to spot this cacophonic state of affairs, especially if we turn our gaze inward. It is a metaphor speaking from the verses,

“Where your treasure lies, there, too, lies your heart.”

"You will listen with your ears, but not hear. You will see with your eyes but not perceive. The heart of this group is obstinate, their ears have become deaf, and they have closed their eyes, so that they cannot see with their eyes nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me so that I could heal them."

As long as our treasure lies in that which pleases our senses or soothes our intellect, our heart's inclination towards the spiritual will remain hardened. There isn't anything in sensory existence that is inherently 'bad', whether a sound, a sight, a taste, etc., but they only become unhealthy when entangled in our selfishness and our ignorance of their spiritual foundations.

Yup! The carpenter builds the house and not the hammer, which can be used for unhealthy purposes; and Isaiah is quite a cradle of cacophonies.