Eugene I wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:41 am
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:23 am
It is actually the same problem which occurs on the Earthy plane when people treat "endogenous experiences" as the
totality of ideal content which makes sense of what those experiences are and where they come from.
I think one of the key discrepancies between your position and most NDE accounts is that you believe that the state of humanity and creation overall is somehow wrong, "fallen", fragmented and dualistic, and this is a problem that needs to be fixed by returning to the unity of the ideal content and integration of fragmented selves into the single Self. However, what most NDE accounts reveal is the opposite: the life of the cosmos is indeed evolving, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it and nothing needs to be fixed. God wanted to know itself and know and consciously experience the fullness of all forms, but the only way to do that was to divide into multiplicity of beings and experience life in all possible forms from all possible perspectives. This is how the new ideal content of the knowledge available to the Divine is continuously being expanded and created.
There is no pre-existing ideal content that we need to return to by abandoning our individuated perspective, but on the opposite, it is the multitude of our individuated perspectives that create and enrich and enhance this content. And that is why we are continuously being sent by Divine to incarnate into humans and other lower-level cognition forms, and then return back and bring that knowledge back to the Divine. It is being done for a purpose. Yet, this does not negate the evolution and the development of the human form of consciousness, the evolution still happens, and this evolution is the way for the Divine to experience and know all forms and states of the human perspective, from the most primitive (in the past of human time) to the most advanced (in the future of human time).
Well... where to start with this one. There are a lot of ways to go here. First, I will briefly mention that Cleric has pointed before to the fact that, within the spiritual realms, we are first approached by those beings who are most tied into the physical realm, and those are precisely the beings whose activity is most associated with Earthly deception. I already know how your mind is interpreting these words... I am not asking you to accept this reality, because you won't even accept the reality of
any objectively higher structure of spiritual realms in the first place. But I am pointing this out to make clear that spiritual science does not just throw its hands up when it comes to NDEs or other similar accounts saying, "
we have no idea why they have different spiritual experiences than us, but our experiences are the right ones!" When spiritual science fails to have an experience-based and well-reasoned account of other views, it does not speak on them at all.
Secondly, you are once again assuming the exact opposite of spiritual science view in the bold. I would seriously compile all of these into bullet points for you, if I thought you would print them out and tape to your computer desk every time you choose to write a post on PoF or spiritual science, because then 90% of what you write would be left out once you realize they are complete misrepresentations. Maybe I will compile it and see if Dana can pin it as a post in the topic-specific section, so it can easily be referenced either by others or by us, to save from typing all the corrections out again. Suffice to say, there is no spiritual scinece claim that we need to return to any previous state of existence or abandon any individuated experiences or perspectives we have had so far. Like I said, it is the exact opposite, which is clear when we consider what the word "evolution" means in an ideal context. Spritual evolution does
not mean to move back to past ideal modes of existence nor does it entail any previous ideal structures of existence being lost in the later forms. All such structures are brought along in the metamorphic progression.
At a much more basic level, anyone who reflects for awhile and is honest with what thoughts come back from that reflection will know intuitively that humanity-nature is "fallen" and needs redemption in some way. That is the basis of every single spiritual tradition which has ever existed, including all the Eastern ones, and it is plainly evident from the way we treat each other and the way we treat Nature. If the incarnation, death, reincarnation, et al. process was simply a circular wheel of experience as you appear to be describing it, without any sort of spiraling
redemptive arc, then the anti-natalists would be the most wise among us, because it means physical Reality is a nightmarish place and it is better for no one to ever be born into it. This is truly the ego at its worst, dismissing millennia and aeons of cross-cultural Wisdom to substitute its own preferred spiritual reality that really was conjured up in the course of a few years of your single lifetime and on the basis of NDE accounts from other people. There really isn't anything left to add to that...