Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:01 am
JeffreyW wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:06 am
It’s a great book. I thought Lila was even better.
Well there's at least some sentiment that we can agree on. Perhaps an avenue that we could follow into further convergence. But unless any others here have read Pirsig, it may only be efficacious for us.
AshvinP wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:37 pm
I am up for it. But I can already anticipate some things which would make me regret my participation...
Yet, as perchance a basis for dialogos, here's where I'm somewhat baffled. Ashvin's take is that there is a way that we can reason our way into the numinous that doesn't involve mere abstract metaphysical speculation, or just sitting in silent meditation waiting for some ineffable revelation. My take is more like, to quote Pascal, the heart has its reasons whereof reason knows nothing, and that when open to it, the numinous finds us. Jeffrey's take is that the numinous is an archaic metaphysical error. Where could we go from there, if like those Greek philosophers of old, we actually got together in person to parse it out orally, instead of behind these textbound thoughts transfixed like a butterfly collection on this electron screen?
This is not quite my take. For ex., I think Emerson expresses my view very well when writing:
What is true of proverbs, is true of all fables, parables, and allegories. This relation between the mind and matter is not fancied by some poet, but stands in the will of God, and so is free to be known by all men. It appears to men, or it does not appear. When in fortunate hours we ponder this miracle, the wise man doubts, if, at all other times, he is not blind and deaf; “Can these things be, And overcome us like a summer’s cloud, Without our special wonder?” for the universe becomes transparent, and the light of higher laws than its own, shines through it.
The key is to see that these higher laws are in no way discontinuous to or independent of our living Reason (reasoning which not only proceeds horizontally, by asking what is true, but also deeply and vertically by asking
why it is true, and how/why we
know why it is true). Most people view this as an endless recursive loop of reflection, leading us straight into a dead-end of thought from which we cannot escape, or can only escape by mystical thoughtless state. Cleric and myself have been trying to illustrate here why that is not at all true. And, I have been trying to point out how Cleric is a clear example on this forum of the living Reason which metamorphoses into Imagination and what degrees of thought-freedom are opened up as a result.