Anthroposophy as Fascio

[Stranger]

Oh, I'm not advocating staying on the steps of "faking it" but rather acknowledging its presence as a sometimes needed crutch.

Yeah, I know, I was just saying in case anyone would interpret it that way

Even the High Ideal can be tricky in the sense that spiritual ambition can produce an "anti-ego ego." Tricks and traps are strewn along the paths. To not fall -- at least, not too often -- one must be well grounded or humble as humus. Cleaning, like brushing one's teeth needs to continue as regular maintenance. Of course, you know all this. I'm just stating the lecture that I deliver to myself.

You are right, the "enlightened ego" is one of the worst traps on the spiritual path.

[AshvinP]

Yes, we are here on Earth to learn how to connection with the Divine through Love. But modern man has confused "how" for abstract theories, models, and vague mystical feelings. He takes pleasure in the abstractions while those on the higher cognitive path are pained by such abstractions. He projects his abstract way of knowing onto the ancients as well and refashions the ancient scriptures in his intellectual image. On the higher cognitive path is where we can find concrete, feeling-imbued Oneness and Love if we are willing to sacrifice the intellectual persona who craves sensuous gratification and allow the Divine Word to inflow our cognition and purified soul life, i.e. the Virgin Sophia.

I repeat again and again that the knowledge of the Divine Self and Oneness that Christ was pointing us to is a direct experiential first-person-perspective living gnosis and has nothing to do with any abstract theories. And the way to reach to this experiential gnosis is exactly to crucify our "persona", which is our separate self and the sense of separation from the Divine.

I am crucified with Christ, but I live, yet not I anymore, but Christ liveth in me (Galatians 2:20)

When we have this experience, beginning at the same time to feel ourselves one with the whole World, with the Cosmos, then, if we are to attain, not to a dream, nor to any abstract thought, but to a first actual realisation of oneness with the Cosmos, we must carry the experience further. An inner consciousness can light up within us which I may perhaps express in the following words. “Thou, O Earth, art not alone in the World-All! Thou, O Earth, together with me and all the other beings upon thee, art verily one with the great World-All!” Living in this experience of oneness with the silicious rock, we no longer see the Earth separated from the rest of the Universe. We see the Earth as an ether-sphere, emerging from the sphere of the cosmic ether.

The key here is that Steiner is pointing to the feeling of oneness with the Cosmos and does not say anything about the oneness with the Creator and the knowledge of the Creator.

Yes, and that 'mystical gnosis' is also called abstract, because you can't speak of any living details through which the Oneness expresses itself in our current experience. There is nothing of the living threads which weave all be-ings into Unity within and across incarnations, throughout the vertical gradient of body-soul-spirit experience. You only repeat again and again oneness quotes from others, GTP-style lists which reshuffle the words, or greetings from a Hallmark card.

[Lou Gold]

It's a happy day for me dying here in Hawaii, full of creating and sharing.
These are some verbal and visual tokens of what I'm living.

as if on a magic carpet
soaring high
diving deep
touching the earth
like a feather
is lovely indeed

praise and glory
to santo daime
to jesus christ
to the queen of
the heavens, forests and seas
and to the great mysteriousness

[AshvinP]

But -- the infamous BUT -- would the bolded type make sense to someone without the direct first-person experience? Or would it have to be aspirational as in "faking it until making it." Nevertheless, perhaps abstract ideals function to place us on a path leading to a challenge to more fully plunge into direct experience ... or not. I'm not putting anything down (lower or higher), just saying that metamorphosis has its own timing. Short of direct experience, it is surely useful to start preparing for the possibility. Meditation, contemplation, sacred medicines and dying can be hopeful and helpful.

Right, until the actual authentic experience is attained, it is faith that will give us the aspiration, prayer that will open our souls to the meeting with the Divine, sacrificing anything personal that does not align with the Divine that will clean the room in our souls for the Divine Spirit to enter, and then the ideas and meanings that we get from the scriptures and from the masters' guidance will be the road signs and pointers to steer us in the right direction. But "faking it" and trying to make up some spiritual experiences by ourselves is not a good idea, we can easily deceive ourselves.

Oh, I'm not advocating staying on the steps of "faking it" but rather acknowledging its presence as a sometimes needed crutch. Even the High Ideal can be distorted in the sense that spiritual ambition can produce an "anti-ego ego." Tricks and traps are strewn along the paths. To not fall -- at least, not too often -- one must be well grounded or humble as humus. Cleaning, like brushing one's teeth needs to continue as regular maintenance. Of course, you know all this. I'm just stating the lecture that I deliver to myself.

Happy Palm Sunday to you.

Good point, Lou. It's actually a really simple thing - if we identify our current personality with the Buddha, the Christ, 'not I but Christ in me', etc., then we have clearly succumbed to excessive pride. And that pride serves to blot out our capacity for logical reasoning (Logos principle) and honest self-evaluation. We imagine everyone else who speaks differently than we do is a servant of the dualistic realm or some evil power, but we ourselves are in a pristine condition of oneness, perceiving beauty everywhere, loving everyone, and what not. Our 'anti-ego ego' feels offended and insulted whenever it is confronted by the fact that it is not so pristine and has not yet perceived the 'pure truth'.

“How much better to get wisdom than gold!
And to get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.

The highway of the upright is to depart from evil;
He who keeps his way preserves his soul.

Pride goes before destruction,
And a haughty spirit before a fall.
Better to be of a humble spirit with the lowly,
Than to divide the spoil with the proud."

[Lou Gold]

Right, until the actual authentic experience is attained, it is faith that will give us the aspiration, prayer that will open our souls to the meeting with the Divine, sacrificing anything personal that does not align with the Divine that will clean the room in our souls for the Divine Spirit to enter, and then the ideas and meanings that we get from the scriptures and from the masters' guidance will be the road signs and pointers to steer us in the right direction. But "faking it" and trying to make up some spiritual experiences by ourselves is not a good idea, we can easily deceive ourselves.

Oh, I'm not advocating staying on the steps of "faking it" but rather acknowledging its presence as a sometimes needed crutch. Even the High Ideal can be distorted in the sense that spiritual ambition can produce an "anti-ego ego." Tricks and traps are strewn along the paths. To not fall -- at least, not too often -- one must be well grounded or humble as humus. Cleaning, like brushing one's teeth needs to continue as regular maintenance. Of course, you know all this. I'm just stating the lecture that I deliver to myself.

Happy Palm Sunday to you.

Good point, Lou. It's actually a really simple thing - if we identify our current personality with the Buddha, the Christ, 'not I but Christ in me', etc., then we have clearly succumbed to excessive pride. And that pride serves to blot out our capacity for logical reasoning (Logos principle) and honest self-evaluation. We imagine everyone else who speaks differently than we do is a servant of the dualistic realm or some evil power, but we ourselves are in a pristine condition of oneness, perceiving beauty everywhere, loving everyone, and what not. Our 'anti-ego ego' feels offended and insulted whenever it is confronted by the fact that it is not so pristine and has not yet perceived the 'pure truth'.

“How much better to get wisdom than gold!
And to get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.

The highway of the upright is to depart from evil;
He who keeps his way preserves his soul.

Pride goes before destruction,
And a haughty spirit before a fall.
Better to be of a humble spirit with the lowly,
Than to divide the spoil with the proud."

[Lou Gold]

Ashvin,

"one must be well grounded or humble as humus"

Might we might say that humus is the placenta of resurrection?

[Stranger]

Yes, and that 'mystical gnosis' is also called abstract, because you can't speak of any living details through which the Oneness expresses itself in our current experience. There is nothing of the living threads which weave all be-ings into Unity within and across incarnations, throughout the vertical gradient of body-soul-spirit experience. You only repeat again and again oneness quotes from others, GTP-style lists which reshuffle the words, or greetings from a Hallmark card.

Great, here we go, so this statement means that you, together with Steiner and anthroposophy, deny the very possibility of the living mystical experience of the transcended, of the experiential gnosis of the Divine Self and its Oneness, which Christ and the Christian mystics and Apostles, the Sufis, the Advaitists and other Hindu mystics and yogis, the Buddhists and the Taoists (and probably many other spiritual traditions that I'm not aware of) always spoke about and witnessed, and you call it Chat-GPT-style abstract claims. Noted!

That is exactly how the hierarchy of the rebellious spirits think and what they want us to believe:
- You don't need any direct living knowledge of Oneness with the Creator, and this Oneness is a bluff anyway, it's not a real experience but only empty abstract statements of so-called "mystics"
- You can get unlimited living knowledge of all the world structures and even feel oneness with them, and it will make you very advanced and powerful. (Well, they forget to say to you that it only applies to the knowledge of the dualistic realm structures, because they were expelled from the Divine nondual realms. You cannot abide in and know anything about the realities of the nondual reams if you are not in the state of Oneness with the Divine.)
- Keep incarnating into humans where we will have direct influence on your soul and you will be under our control and manipulation. Well, sorry to tell you that you will keep suffering because you will still feel separate from the Divine and its Love, but you can deal with it, we will help you to feel proud of being so knowledgeable and powerful. Keep the good work, there is a lot of esoteric knowledge for you to dive in: there is the knowledge of Spheres and Planets, of higher-orders of hierarchy to which you will have access by our esoteric Initiation, you will advance along the ladder of our hierarchy and yourself become a powerful higher-order being and a member of our powerful Order that rules the world and the Earth. We will make the journey thrilling for you!

"I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me" (John 14:30)"
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:1)

[AshvinP]

Yes, and that 'mystical gnosis' is also called abstract, because you can't speak of any living details through which the Oneness expresses itself in our current experience. There is nothing of the living threads which weave all be-ings into Unity within and across incarnations, throughout the vertical gradient of body-soul-spirit experience. You only repeat again and again oneness quotes from others, GTP-style lists which reshuffle the words, or greetings from a Hallmark card.

Great, here we go, so this statement means that you, together with Steiner and anthroposophy, deny the very possibility of the living mystical experience of the transcended, of the experiential gnosis of the Divine Self and its Oneness, which Christ and the Christian mystics and Apostles, the Sufis, the Advaitists and other Hindu mystics and yogis, the Buddhists and the Taoists (and probably many other spiritual traditions that I'm not aware of) always spoke about and witnessed, and you call it Chat-GPT-style abstract claims. Noted!

That is exactly how the hierarchy of the rebellious spirits think and what they want us to believe:
- You don't need any direct living knowledge of Oneness with the Creator, and this Oneness is a bluff anyway, it's not a real experience but only empty abstract statements of so-called "mystics"
- You can get unlimited living knowledge of all the world structures and even feel oneness with them, and it will make you very advanced and powerful. (Well, they forget to say to you that it only applies to the knowledge of the dualistic realm structures, because they were expelled from the Divine nondual realms. You cannot abide in and know anything about the realities of the nondual reams if you are not in the state of Oneness with the Divine.)
- Keep incarnating into humans where we will have direct influence on your soul and you will be under our control and manipulation. Well, sorry to tell you that you will keep suffering because you will still feel separate from the Divine and its Love, but you can deal with it, we will help you to feel proud of being so knowledgeable and powerful. Keep the good work, there is a lot of esoteric knowledge for you to dive in: there is the knowledge of Spheres and Planets, of higher-orders of hierarchy to which you will have access by our esoteric Initiation, you will advance along the ladder of our hierarchy and yourself become a powerful higher-order being and a member of our powerful Order that rules the world and the Earth. We will make the journey thrilling for you!

"I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me" (John 14:30)"
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:1)

No, we only deny that you are having these transcendent experiences. Just because you fantasize your own personal mystical experiences are of like nature to those of Christ's apostles, doesn't make it so. It has already been explained many times what your experiences actually are - the boundaries of your own intellectual ego smeared out into 'oneness'. It should go without saying there cannot be experience of transcendent Oneness if we cannot even consciously cross the threshold of death, and you certainly have not done the latter.

What is most remarkable is the zero sense of wonder and awe. When I mention the living experience of the Guardian or the imaginative life tableau, it's like these things don't even register as mysterious phenomena for you. They don't even prompt any questions. Everything that can possibly be experienced in life is felt to be already encompassed within your mind-container and, if it doesn't immediately resonate with your preferences, it is thrown into the bucket of 'deceptive dualistic hierarchy' and paid no more attention. You get more excitement from wallowing in externalized demiurge theories than from actually experiencing your own inner life of activity. It is a great cautionary tale for where the road of excessive pride and mystical reductionism leads us.

[Stranger]

No, we only deny that you are having these transcendent experiences. Just because you fantasize your own personal mystical experiences are of like nature to those of Christ's apostles, doesn't make it so. It has already been explained many times what your experiences actually are - the boundaries of your own intellectual ego smeared out into 'oneness'.

What is most remarkable is the zero sense of wonder and awe. When I mention the living experience of the Guardian or the imaginative life tableau, it's like these things don't even register as mysterious phenomena for you. They don't even prompt any questions. Everything that can possibly be experienced in life is felt to be already encompassed within your mind-container and, if it doesn't immediately resonate with your preferences, it is thrown into the bucket of 'deceptive dualistic hierarchy' and paid no more attention. You get more excitement from wallowing in externalized demiurge theories than from actually experiencing your own inner life of activity. It is a great cautionary tale for where the road of excessive pride and mystical reductionism leads us.

How do I know what kind of spirit is this " Guardian or the imaginative life tableau" is? We can never tell by the name or appearance of those spirits because the dark spirits are the masters of masquerade, but only by testing "if they are of God" by sensing their spiritual state when we directly encounter them. We should be VERY careful when dealing with discarnate spirits and never approach them with awe and submission until we test them.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (1 John 4)
"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness." (2 Corinthians 11:14)

Anyway, you are employing your usual tactics of diverting discussion to my personality, but we are not discussing my spiritual experience here, but the spiritual experience of the mystics of spiritual traditions who spoke about the direct experience of Oneness with the Divine, starting with Christ himself. You have only two options here:
- Deny that they are real and claim that they are abstractions, and join the rebellious spirits in their confrontation with the Divine
- Accept that they point to real experience and then follow the spiritual path to Oneness with the Divine to realize it in your own direct experience in this life. It is ONLY about your own direct experience, not mine or anyone else's.

[AshvinP]

Ashvin,

"one must be well grounded or humble as humus"

Might we might say that humus is the placenta of resurrection?

Sure. Many virtues such as humility, inner courage, honesty, moderation, etc. purify and prepare the soil for the Spirit to be born anew within our life of willing-feeling-thinking. They inflow Cosmic impulses which nourish our soul. And, of course, there is no resurrection of the new without sacrifice of the old. "Do not put new wine into old wineskins or else both will be ruined." Now is a great time of year to take an honest inventory of all those inner-outer qualities which we are still clinging onto and unwilling to let go, which prevent us from proceeding to a new metamorphic stage of life.