AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:58 am
It is definitely the spirit of the age which is the crux of the issue. The problems within the Church are not separate from that, only one of the more disturbing consequences. That is why Nietzsche was a character
"not made for the age in which he lived" (Steiner). Or as Nietzsche himself put it, he "
meets no one; this is a part of going one's own way. No one approaches to help him; all that happens to him of danger, accidents, evil and bad weather, he must get along with alone". The metaphysical split of polarity into duality disturbs any and all, secular, religious and everything in between. We cannot afford to underestimate its influence.
Steiner wrote:The [rationalists] have split man into body and soul, have divided all existence into idea and reality. And they have made the soul, the spirit, the idea, into something especially valuable in order that they may despise the reality, the body all the more. But Zarathustra says, There is but one reality, but one body, and the soul is only something in the body, the ideal is only something in reality. Body and soul of man are a unity ; body and spirit spring from one root. The spirit is there only because a body is there, which has strength to develop the spirit in itself. As the plant unfolds the blossom from itself, so the body unfolds the spirit from itself.
The most solemn people can and have been carried adrift by that current, perhaps
especially the most solemn and ascetic people, as they have incorrectly assumed their ascetic ideals would insulate them from its all-pervading influence. That their righteous works are a substitute for faith in the process which transforms and renews creation. That humanity can continue living off the nourishment of its dead ancestors without truly bringing them back to life. The positive material developments you reference are all for naught if they cannot be undergirded by a truly metaphysical-spiritual transformation, and for that we must be more terrified of the forces at work within and without than we currently are - "
the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
I agree with the last part, but I know a bit about history and I think we should learn from some of the lessons of the 20th century. Much of what Marx wrote is logical and sounds like a great vision, getting rid of poverty, the resources of the nation being shared in collaboration rather than competition with each other etc. The trouble is that the reality is that everyone gets poor, the rich are replaced with political leaders, and moral laws are subsumed under the leader’s twisted interpretation of Marx. With Nietzsche I agree you have a far better understanding of reality and of people, but you have a similar phenomena where Hitler picked up his ideas, added the likes of Aryan nationalism and antisemitism, and again moral laws are subsumed under a twisted view of the ideology. Even a professional philosopher like Heidegger, who was directly influenced by Nietzsche, saw no problem with Hitlers reformulation of his ideas. I don’t know of anyone who stood up to the Nazi’s based on the fact that Hitler had twisted Nietzsche’s ideas (It’s possible there were some, but certainly nothing I’ve come across. There were however many whose boring old traditional and “metaphysically naive” (not my view) faith had not been updated to suit the spirit of the age, and risked their own lives based on that to smuggle jews out, to resist the warped ideology.
I’m certainly not claiming that the church is immune to this, it’s made up of people who are swayed by political currents just like everyone else. In the past when the church had secular power it attracted those people in society enamoured by power into the clergy, and ‘people + power’ is always a dangerous combination. It played a role in terrible persecution of Jews. I would argue that this was long ago when things were very different, but I was shocked to see a couple of US bishops essentially campaigning for Trump at the last election. They were swept up with extreme political polarisation not so differently from Heidegger in my example earlier.
Of course I’m not claiming Trump is the same as Hitler, and don’t want to get into politics as there are clearly issues with segments of the Democrats that they were reacting to. My point is more that individuals become disconnected from their compass when they’re promised a new and shiny future, when they’re told the problems are the fault of these people, these ideas, these organisations. When people have genuine concerns and challenges, they get easily swept along by visions of an idyllic future.
I agree with you that the average non spiritual person on the street thinks that the ontological choices are between monist materialism or a kind of dualistic faith. I also think the latter is a problem in the US specifically, where for historical reasons you have a kind of ‘testosterone’ christianity. It’s possible that a metaphysical shift away from a dualistic way of thinking could help this, but then again there is a risk that the ideology this is packaged in develops a life of it’s own, and transcends it’s original good intentions.
From my perspective, the problems of the world are within each of us. It takes sustained effort to keep your focus on fixing your own issues, and if everyone did that we would have a sustainable way forward that doesn’t rely on new ideologies full of good intentions to start with. As you say, "
the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Throughout the bible, god says that the way to find him is through a contrite and humble heart. This is the real ground of spiritual progress, and because it’s so difficult, at the start of each mass we say this;
I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and
in what I have failed to do,
[Pray while striking the breast three times.]
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
As Jordan Peterson says, if we each take genuine personal responsibility for ourselves, that’s far more transformative to the whole of society than each of us trying to find the best way for everyone else to change.
. Yahweh I would capitalise, as I would Jesus, but I don’t think capitalising his name is high on the list of ways of paying respect to him.
